Competition Officials Interchange Network

Special Events - Hammer

2009-12-08T07:22:00.000-05:00

A question came from Jim Hanley:

Are Gloves Allowed in the High School Hammer?


I am writing to several Hammer Throw and Rules experts to get clarification on the above topic. I am interested in this subject both as an official who has worked the event with elite, collegiate and high school athletes and as an author of a yearly book on comparative track and field rules.

Recently, information has come out from the California Track Starters Association and in a USATF “Best Practices” chart stating that gloves are not allowed in any high school throwing event which could include the Hammer Throw.

Let’s examine what the rule book says.

High School rules 6-4-7, 6-5-7, and 6-6-6 clearly prohibit gloves in the discus, shot put and javelin events.

These are event specific rules, but there is no general rule prohibiting gloves in field events. Likewise, there is nothing in the sections on uniforms or assistance referring to gloves.

The only mention of the Hammer Throw at all is in Rule 8 (Special Events) and that rule merely states that the event may be contested.

Gloves do not aid performance. Unlike the discus, shot, and javelin, hammers tend to hurt one’s hands. Hence, gloves are used for protection much like a knee brace or belt support which is legal in all four rule books.

It seems to me, that since no high school rule says anything about conducting the hammer throw, other rule books need to be used for that event. That is what is done with the other Special Events in Rule 8.     For example, scoring in the high school combined events is done using IAAF scoring tables. Likewise, since nothing in the high school rules addresses conducting steeplechase or race walking events, NCAA or USATF rules are used for those events.

It is logical that this should also be done with the hammer.   All three non-high school rule books NCAA (6-11-2), USATF (187-3c) and IAAF (187-4b) allow the use of gloves with open finger tips for the Hammer Throw.
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This brings up an interesting question - what rule book has jurisdiction over a high school event that is NOT covered by rule in the National Federation rulebook? Since USATF is the national governing body, do those competition rules apply? Further, should the NFHS rulebook indicate what rules should govern the conduct of the event? How does Rhode Island handle this?

What do you think, or what is the practice where you are?

Coaches Education

2009-04-28T10:09:00.003-04:00

Notice that I said "coaches" education, not "coaching". While I would agree that the coaching education that USATF runs is indeed a good and necessary program for young, inexperienced coaches, I also think that they need some education in the rules.

Far too often, we have coaches who "think" that they know the rules, and try to bully or intimidate the official into believing them. It has happened before, but this past weekend when I was refereeing a meet, an athlete that was in the high jump and the javelin at the same time had a problem.

When I instructed the head event judge to pass the athlete on his first throw because time had expired (all other preliminary throws had been completed, and he was the only one left), the throws coach said that "technically" (don't you love that term when they use it!) the preliminaries hadn't ended yet, so his athlete was entitled to all three of this trials. Needless to say, he was wrong, and after showing him the rule, he slinked away.

What compounded my frustration was that he told the head coach a different story, so when the head coach approached me, I had to basically call his assistant a liar. I didn't like doing it, but it was the truth.

My point is that if coaches are going to argue rules, then they should know what the rule says. If they want to go toe-to-toe with an official, then they better be on solid ground when it comes to protesting. It would be even better if they actually knew the rules, so that they wouldn't make frivolous protests, and waste the time of the referee in hearing something that has no basis.

Do you try and educate the coaches that you run into? Do they actually know the rule that they are trying to argue? Should we be trying to educate them, or is it a hopeless proposition? What do you do, or not do, and why?

So is it a foul?

2009-01-15T08:27:00.003-05:00

For some time, there has been a debate in the throwing community about the pivot foot in the back of the ring on rotational shot putters. Sometimes, they drop their heel down on the ring as they are pivoting out of the back to move to the center. The fundamental question is - is this a foul?

Christian Cantwell has been called for it on a couple of occasions, and at one of the world indoor meets in Spain, the American contingent went so far as to forewarn the officials that any foul call in the back of the ring would be immediately protested.

This brings us to a point of discussion. If the heel drops and the sole of the shoe is in contact with the top of the ring, then it is clearly a foul. The athlete is using the ring to push off (either actively or passively), and that is a black and white violation of the rules. It is no different than if he/she were to step on the ring at the front or side during the course of the throw.

The discussion point is the point at which they are "on" the ring. My general rule in evaluating this is that if the sole of shoe is creased or bent at the point that they are over the ring in the back, then they are indeed touching the top surface of the ring - hence, a foul. Most of the throws officials I have talked to agree with this.

How do you call it? What, if anything makes it a foul?

Remembering Al Minturn

2008-12-09T05:37:00.004-05:00

Excuse me for the very personal post here, but Al Minturn was a good friend and mentor. I can't allow his passing to go unnoticed.

I first met Al in 2004 at the Trials in Sacramento. We became instant friends. He was easy to talk to, was very knowledgeable, and was just like a big bear - warm and friendly, but tough when he had to be. This past summer in Eugene, I remember one morning, well before anyone else was out on the track (except us electronic measurement guys), Al and Ray Fitzhugh came out to put down the foul line extensions for the javelin event that would occur later in the morning. They had all that they needed, and got right after things. Seeing these two veteran officials, good friends, doing what needed to be done, was emblematic of how he worked.

I invited Al to join us at Penn Relays (he had a daughter who works at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital), he thought about it and the next day told me yes, he would love to come in. In April of 2005 he joined our hammer/discus crew. He made such a good impression (hustling and always looking for what needed to be done) that the following year he was named assistant chief of the discus. He brought his own portable PA system, his own windsock, and was always ready to do whatever needed to be done. He was the officials official.

Last year at Penn, we stayed at the same hotel. We had dinner one night at a nearby restaurant, where we talked for a long time and I really got to know the man. He was brilliant. Not just in a track and field sense, but intellectually. He was an engineer by training, but had taught in the LA school system his entire career. It just happened to be the job that was available at the time.

The more we talked, the more respect I had for him. He was not one to brag, or to thump his chest. As I have always said, "good officials get noticed by not getting noticed." Al was a great official!

When my wife was ill and being treated, Al would call periodically to see how she was doing. Although they had never actually met, he cared enough to call. He didn't use email, didn't even have a computer, but he was never hesitant to call and see how things were going.

I will miss him terribly, and no Penn Relays, or for that matter any meet, will be the same for me.

Are you coming back?

2008-06-20T07:47:00.003-04:00

One question that always comes up at the end of any Olympiad is - are you going to re-certify for the next one? This is getting to be a tougher question each time around. Gas prices are up, travel expenses have increased. And, let's face it, the officiating pool is graying rapidly.

As we look forward to the 2008-2012 Olympiad, how many of our officiating brethren will still be there? Are you one who is considering hanging it up? If so, why? And what can we do to get more, younger officials into the fold?

Oly Trials 2008

2008-06-20T07:45:00.004-04:00

As an official, what did you observe at the Olympic Trials? Good performances? Disappointing ones? Good officiating (no names please) or "can be improved upon" officiating (again, no names)? I would like to generate some comments and discussion on the job that we are doing. Add your comments.

What makes a chief?

2007-08-09T09:04:00.001-04:00

Alright, we've all been there . . . doing the grunt work on a crew at a meet. There is someone else in charge, the crew chief. What makes him or her special?

What are the qualities that make a crew chief? Is it personality? Knowledge of the rules? Charisma? Something else, or a combination of things? And if so, what things?

Let's talk about what makes good, and not so good, crew chiefs. Please, no names or other ways of identifying who they are ("At the 2004 Trials in the discus . . ."). If we can identify what are the good and bad traits of crew chiefs, then we can begin preparing the next generation of leaders in our officials ranks.

Throws Safety

2007-05-01T13:46:00.000-04:00

Again we have heard of an injury at a track meet, and again it involves a throwing event (the discus). And yet again, it is an injury that was completely preventable.

First, what was this parent doing on the infield to begin with? why wasn't he in the stands where he should have been? I know that I like to be close to the action, but standing ON the sector line is not exactly the best place to be.

Second, what was the meet administration thinking by allowing this obviously ignorant parent to be out there? didn't they have any rules in place for where spectators can be? This is akin to allowing parents to stand at the hash marks to watch a football game, or place a chair on the third base line to see the batter better. What were they, the administration thinking?

Third, where were the officials and why did they allow this to happen? We don't know from t he information what role, if any, the officials took, but SOMEONE should have been looking around and seen this.

For the past 2 years, I have been doing a throws safety course for anyone who wants to participate. Obviously, these folks need help when it comes to throws safety.

If there is enough interest, I would be glad to present this to an officials association, or at the national meeting (sorry, I won't be in Hawaii, for I have neither the time nor the money). the National Throws Coaches Association, of which I am the vice-president, feels that this is a VERY important issue for the future of our sport, and for the future of the throwing events.

What do you think? Is there any interest out there in a throws safety seminar? If so, where and when?

Lawsuit?

2007-04-14T18:27:00.000-04:00

The following post comes from Bob Tice, Chair of the NOC Insurance Committee. This is an issue that EVERY certified official should be concerned about, and should be aware of. Talk to your personal insurance agent, and then respond to any of the committee members listed below.

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Not me, I'm only a track and field official. I don't need insurance -- it's a WASTE.

Time went by and that official had a lawsuit filed against him/her.
Final result:

cost of defense - $6,100 (Out of pocket money)
8 days of court appearance - time lost from work without pay.

WHEW -- that was close.

It could have been all their retirement money and/or even their house.

The handwriting on the wall is simple --

WE AS OFFICIALS NEED INSURANCE -- EVEN IF WE ONLY NEED IT ONCE.

The NOC Insurance Committee would like you to express your concerns to any
or all of the following members:

William Boyd
Chester Bradley
Richard Messenger
Donald Berry
Delores Murray
Eric Smith
John Drolla
Robert Tice

and of course Bill Roe, and Craig Masbac.

Bob Tice, NOC Insurance Committee Chair

Our New Location

2007-03-13T17:19:00.000-04:00

Welcome to our new discussion location. As you may have noticed with our other discussion forum, we had the spam problem. In this new blog, we will have a moderated forum, allowing me to more easily regulate the postings and eliminate the spam.

If you want anything added to this blog, please send me an email at mtheckel@gmail.com. I will add it as soon as I can. Again, this is to prevent the spamming of the site. Anyone will be able to read the blog, and will be able to comment - but they will be moderated comments. Sorry for having to do this, but we want some quality content here without the porn, or the spam, or . . .

I hope that you enjoy the new forum!

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